@desafinado i certainly agree that there are no simple formulas. each conflict has its own crucial facts. but to the degree we (on the outside) come in with priors—we start from simple formulas before the texture on the ground must leaven it—that formula should be mutually agreed settlement within the sovereign borders, rather than a right of national self-determination. i don't dispute there could be conditions that would overwhelm the presumption, but they'd be unusual and extreme conditions.