@divya ACT UP caused very narrow and targeted disorder on the streets, and famously paired it with an inside strategy. i’m not saying all protest is bad. i’m saying effective protest is orderly, intentionally and clearly contained, carefully controlled because when it devolves into anything that resembles street violence you lose. the 1980s were a propitious time for these protests, bc there was a right wing govt but no fascist outside movement contesting. 1/

@divya the civil rights movement has to be scored a win for outside protest, but it was a close run thing, under unusual circumstances, in which people were so committed they not only began nonviolent but remained so under baton and fist. even so, it likely would not have succeeded if the disorder had not been confined to a fraction of the country the rest was embarrassed about, and extraordinary efforts by LBJ. i think we’ve overlearned from a very close-run N=1. 2/

in reply to self

@divya 60s protest in general cannot be scored a success, except that it was its middle aged protagonists who got to do most of the scoring when we learned about it in school. we traded LBJ for Nixon, and have been in decline ever since. Democrats retook power in 1992 only by catastrophically rebranding themselves and betraying our values, a spiral Biden is the first (ironically) to meaningfully recover from. /fin

in reply to self

“huge numbers are drawn to these protests more by solidarity with fellow students than by support for a ‘free Palestine.’” @tb tldr.nettime.org/@tb/112366486

// a really important point. and faculty too, i think.

as soon as flags are involved, you know it is going to be stupid.

another paradoxical effect of the current protests is to have restored the vitality of liberal zionism in america. speaking strictly anecdotally, from my own community, people who two weeks ago were facing an identity crisis over israeli actions they recognized as indefensible are today comfortably crouched behind accusations of antisemitism and terrorist supporters to blame for it all.

we’re about to defeat LBJ all over again. how did that work out for us the last time?

people on the left tend to imagine that taking the streets is their ultimate backstop, but that’s like thinking ocean water the ultimate backstop for thirst.

@danjac@masto.ai yes. there are real constraints on what forms of political action can be effective in the context of a fascist movement.

a reality that socialist or progressive protestors must take into account is that disorder on the streets always works to the political advantage of fascists, who credibly promise order at all costs even while they cynically ensure protest becomes disorderly.

it’s not fair, but it is reality. in the ecstasy of genuine righteousness one may not give a fuck, but then a morning after comes.

at a certain point, true and false come to matter much less than us and them.

This is madness.

i already think we’re paying too much attention to this stuff and too little to what’s actually going on in israel/palestine, but does anybody do any data journalism about campus protests, logging and tallying chants and activities at different locations?

the people who crush the university student protests will always be on the wrong side of history. it will become a settled matter twenty to thirty years later, when the former students are the ones writing the history.

someone put me on their mailing lists a couple of days ago, and i have to say that it's AMAZING.

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what never understood is he was popular not because he's "conservative", but because he was perceived as chill, as letting people live and do their thing, during the pandemic when media portrayed other places as under the jackboots of some COVID gestapo.

anti-abortion, anti-pot, don't-say-anything-in-front-of-the-children Ron is not chill. and not, i think, broadly that popular anymore.

this one reminds me a lot of Nancy Pelosi communications i used to get.

e-mail screenshot:

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even a bad seed can with care and time grow into a wonderful tree.

@_dm (unintentional in the sense i don't think she foresaw the full consequences, like a pool shot that impressively sinks several of your balls when you’d planned on just one.)

i’ve got to admit, Elise Stefanik performed an unintentionally brilliant act of partisan politics when she got the Presidents of Penn and Harvard fired, encouraging their colleagues to jump straight to the kind of repressive overreaction that is a match to the kerosene mix of student idealism and narcissism.

now the Democratic coalition is bitterly divided, and the most salient issues are public disorder and student entitlement, both of which strongly favor Republicans.

does anyone have any idea what’s been going on in Gaza over the last week? i feel pretty up to date on American university campuses, thx.

"How Movements Win" by Samantha Hancox-Li @sjshancoxli liberalcurrents.com/how-moveme